BBC BASIC for Windows
General >> General Board >> Should Richard return? http://bb4w.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1478371461 POLL: Should Richard rejoin the forum?
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Should Richard return?
Post by DDRM on Nov 5th, 2016, 6:44pm
Richard Russell (the author of BB4W) is currently working on some minor updates to BB4W, and is considering the support links in the Help menu. At present this forum is one of those, though Richard is not currently a member of the forum because of disputes in the past with a few members.
The question is: Should Richard rejoin the forum, and provide support through it, or should he change the link to another forum (such as the cross-platform forum)?
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by DDRM on Nov 7th, 2016, 08:29am
Hi Folks,
This is linked to a poll, so you can express an opinion anonymously, but it doesn't seem to show up as such!
If you click on the topic (rather than just reading it using the "last 10 messages" link), you will see it (and be able to vote, if you are logged in).
Best wishes,
D
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by KenDown on Nov 11th, 2016, 6:57pm
Good grief! The forum without Richard is rather like apple pie without any fruit.
I was sorry he left and I would welcome him back again.
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by Richey on Nov 12th, 2016, 08:15am
Double post
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by Richey on Nov 12th, 2016, 08:17am
Yes, Richard is the author. But there will need to be greater tolerance, patience, forgiveness and some thicker skins all round, from all parties in order for it work (in my humble opinion) Re: Should Richard return?
Post by KenDown on Nov 12th, 2016, 09:22am
I am all for thick skins, as well as being all for politeness and courtesy.
I have always found Richard obliging, helpful and courteous. On the one occasion we disagreed he expressed his opinion with vigour but without failing to be courteous.
I didn't argue with him; it was obvious that he had a particular viewpoint which did not appear to have a rational basis on which any profitable discussion could be based, but neither did I feel offended.
I must admit I was surprised when he announced that he was leaving, but supposed that, being an infrequent visitor, something had been going on of which I was unaware. Nevertheless, I would welcome his return to a group which is, after all, devoted to discussing his product!
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Nov 14th, 2016, 8:05pm
I didn't know he'd left...
I've no objections to him returning, BB4W has always been Richards project
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by RNBW on Nov 28th, 2016, 4:05pm
BB4W is Richard's work.
It is not very sensible to preclude him from the forum. No matter how clever someone thinks they are, it is extremely unlikely that they will have the in depth knowledge of the product that Richard has. Precluding him from the forum removes his ability to pass on his knowledge to forum users.
I note that the poll is 8-1 in favour of Richard returning. Who in their right mind is the one against and what is their reason for voting against? Re: Should Richard return?
Post by David Williams on Dec 3rd, 2016, 3:15pm
Words are inflammatory, and we all know how words can appear.. Especially when you aren't listening to them speak and have a live conversation.
Yes, very true. It is so easy in a purely text-based medium to misconstrue a neutral or well-intentioned statement or sentence as perhaps a slight, sarcastic witticism, mockery or some other unintended manifestation of disrespect. Some people are much better than others at writing passively and being correctly understood, whereas with others what may have been intended as a respectful and fair-minded remark (in a text-based medium) could be interpreted as "having a go" at someone, or as undue or unfair criticism. Our words can have an unintended or inadvertent 'bite' to them that leads to ill-feelings all round.
The sense that some were being overly critical, disrespectful or unappreciative of other people's efforts was a two-way street as far as this forum is concerned. I and several others sometimes felt that some here were overly critical, even if they really weren't! Like I said, it's easy to misconstrue things.
FWIW, I voted for Richard's return, and I'm curious as to why anyone would be opposed to that? The one person (so far) that voted against could - for all we know - just be some troll who doesn't even possess a copy of BB4W. Perhaps they might have the courage to step forward and explain their opposition (if it's indeed genuine)?
David. --
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 4th, 2016, 11:15am
Probably easier if someone speaks on their behalf (I haven't voted btw)
The problem was people being driven away, especially new people, when Richard ran things. He seemed to realise what he was doing and sometimes even deleted threads
As far as teaching/helping people with coding is concerned he's probably one of the best and most diligent on the entire internet
In any case IMO, if he's not allowed to run this place he won't come back.
No one ever banned him? he decided to leave?
So the real question should be do you want Richard running the forum again.
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 4th, 2016, 11:41am
The current arrangement may turn out to be the best one
Use Richards new place for some things and this place for others
If there's an update a thread/link can be posted
Put a link to his site prominently on here
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by DDRM on Dec 5th, 2016, 09:23am
Perhaps a clarification about the situation as I see it would be useful.
I started this poll/thread at Richard's request, to help him understand whether it would be sensible for him to return to this forum, and therefore leave it as one of the key support routes listed in the BB4W help menu.
Richard withdrew himself from this forum. As I understand it, this was because of conflicts between himself and a few other members of the forum, which made him feel unwelcome. I understand that the criticism spread outside this forum, and he found that very difficult.
I presume Richard made me moderator at that stage: I wasn't before, and never asked to be made a moderator. I have tried to provide support where I can, and keep the community alive, though you will have noticed I am no expert. I greatly value the interjections/corrections made by others.
My personal view is that Richard is the author and owner of BB4W, and he set up this forum to provide support for it, so he has every right to be a member, and to run it as he wishes. I think there is no doubt that he has an unparalleled expertise, which would be of great value to the community. If he chooses to return, I will (a) welcome him, and (b) expect him to return to leadership of the forum,as Ady suggests.
In general, my own views align with those who have posted comments along the lines of "why ever would we NOT want his expertise?". I have always found Richard incredibly knowledgeable and willing to help.
The only downside I can see is that some of those who post help now, probably including me, may step back from providing support, since Richard is so much better qualified, and can be (understandably) critical of inaccurate comments. That risks leaving the forum as a bit of a "one man show".
Best wishes,
D
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 6th, 2016, 09:07am
I should point out that you won't be doing Richard any favours if you let him come back and moderate again btw, he'll simply dig himself straight back into the same old hole Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 6th, 2016, 1:46pm
A lot easier on everyone if we let Richard decide for himself
Does he want to return to the same old same old?
Or does he want change?
Offering him the forum back will put the ball firmly in Richards court
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by RNBW on Dec 6th, 2016, 8:31pm
I think it's pretty clear that those who bothered to vote were very much in favour of Richard returning to the forum, but it would appear that before he could do this the moderators would have to remove the block. It would then be up to Richard to decide if he wanted to return. He may not want to resurrect the problems he had previously and if that is his decision then we must all respect it.??
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by David Williams on Dec 6th, 2016, 8:45pm
I don't understand why he would have been blocked in the first place?
It may be a privileges block, mod/admin stuff
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 6th, 2016, 11:18pm
I would also respectfully request that this thread is deleted with extreme prejudice once a final decision has been reached
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by DDRM on Dec 7th, 2016, 11:24am
To clarify again, to the best of my knowledge there is no block on Richard being a member: he can enrol like anyone else. The decision not to be a part of the forum is purely his.
I haven't investigated, but it may be the case that if he wanted to take on a "managerial" role I'd have to give him the privileges to do that. I'm not sure if his previous "admin" login still exists and works. As I've already said, if he wishes to return I will happily give him whatever privileges he wishes.
As Michael has pointed out, you don't need to be a member of the forum to read it. I know that Richard can, and sometimes does, look at posts. If you aren't happy with your posts on the topic to be public, I suggest you delete them: if you find you can't, send me a private message and I will delete them.
As I posted earlier, this poll and thread was set up at Richard's request, to help him decide whether or not to reengage with this forum. I am indeed leaving the ball entirely in his court with regard to this, though I have had some private communications with him behind the scenes.
Best wishes,
D
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by DDRM on Dec 7th, 2016, 11:30am
On further investigation, it doesn't look like I can change anyone's status anyway, and the "admin" user still exists, so presumably Richard can do as he pleases!
D
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by ady on Dec 7th, 2016, 1:52pm
On further investigation, it doesn't look like I can change anyone's status anyway, and the "admin" user still exists, so presumably Richard can do as he pleases!
D
lol, so he never gave up control of the board to start with, (now why does that make me smile... hehe)
I'm not bothered about my own posts, more about someone mentioning Richard being trolled while he was away from here.
Washing our dirty linen in public just gives anyone like that ammunition
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by PatrickM on Apr 10th, 2017, 11:24am
I don't know the history of what's been going on here, but I think Richard should be allowed back to the forum.
Re: Should Richard return?
Post by KenDown on Apr 10th, 2017, 4:07pm
I am, I must admit, only an occasional visitor. I have always found Richard helpful beyond the call of duty and courteous, although of decided views.
I don't recall whether I was aware that he ran the group; if I was, I just took it as natural seeing as BB4W is his "baby".
If anyone is offended by Richard, I would echo the advice given above about thicker skins.
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